Talk:Song anthology

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Ground Rules READ BEFORE EDITING!

  • If a song wasn't on any version of the "CD of the era" put "x" under "#"
  • Under "Type" put either
    • "Song"
    • "Instrumental"
    • "Intro"
    • "B side"
    • "Bonus track"
    • "Riff"
    • "Cover"
    • "Non-album"
    • "Demo"
    • Or a combination if applicable.
  • CHECK THE SOURCE!!!
  • Put a song under the era when a recording of it first appeared, and in any subsequent era when a new studio recording was released (Example: Sober was first recorded in the era when the band were making demos, so put it there, but was also recorded for the MM EP, so put it in the EP era, and again for Showbiz, so put it in the Showbiz era - Maggie's Farm: played in BHaR era, but originated in Absolution era, put it under Absolution era)

Add any more rules as you feel appropriate


Talk

- Should we include a Hullabaloo era? I listed Dead Star/In Your World and b-sides under Origin of symmetry era.

I think we should.

- I have a doubt on man of mystery. BH&R era?

Well, it was first played before TiRO, so I would say Absolution.

- Pre-Showbiz era for all the other songs?

Well, providing that they belong there, sure!

- What about all the riffs that have a wiki page? Like Maggie's Farm, Heartbreaker, etc.

Just put them wherever they were played originally. See their respective pages for help.

Thanks for all the quick help, I appreciate it! 7 06:01, 4 January 2008 (GMT)


- About Man of Mystery: But it was recorded for the Supermassive Selection, before the Wembley gigs, that's why I would list it under BH&R...
- Maybe a Riffs section?
- Rule suggestion: Respect original UK release tracklist: (Glorious/Fury as B-Sides, not like a song from the album) and list B-sides in order of appearance. --Domcrasher 06:21, 4 January 2008 (GMT)

MoM is definitely BHaR era, no question. And DS/IYW are Hullabloo. They are post Origin and pre Absolution. ۞ 13:06, 4 January 2008 (GMT)

Sorting

Are songs going to be sorted by when they were released, first played, recorded? I think we should stick to when they were recorded in. This way songs will only occur multiple times if they were recorded multiple times like Muscle Museum (EP, album), Sober (demo, EP, album), Sunburn (demo, album) etc. And for live riffs, the tour in which they were first played. Sounds like a good rule to follow? ۞ 13:23, 4 January 2008 (GMT)


I suggest the following order:

- BH&R era. Includes tracks from the record, B-sides from singles and any other recording after the release date of the album (Man of mystery)
- Absolution era. Includes tracks from the record, B-sides from singles and any other recording after the release date of the album.
- Hullabaloo era. Includes Dead Star/In Your World and B-sides from singles (Futurism, Can't take).
- Origin of Symmetry Era. Includes tracks from the record, B-sides from singles and any other recording after the release date of the album.
- Showbiz Era. Includes tracks from the record, B-sides from singles and any other recording after the release date of the album.
- EP era. Includes tracks from both EPs, even if they appeared later on Showbiz. Instant Messenger should be named as is, but with the proper link to Pink Ego Box. Might as well include Baloonatic with a link to Twin.
- Other songs. Includes unreleased, unrecorded songs and riffs (Songs mentioned on the OOS interview cd, riffs, and all the what's he building/dance of the knights intro stuff). Here we must include categorizations such as Unreleased, Riff, Intro, etc. These should be organized chronologically. Being the first the most recent first appearance of the Intro/riff.

Notes:
- To have an era there must be a major release (album).
- To avoid songs appearing twice (or more) and having a b-side listed prior to its proper release, we should consider its formal release on CD (or other medium, until Muse decide to do a radiohead). i.e. We will have Futurism and Can't take... under the hullabaloo era since these songs appeared on the DS/IYW singles, even if they could have been played earlier. Besides, that info is in each song's page.

Whoa that was long. --Domcrasher 21:20, 4 January 2008 (GMT)

Except that Futurism first appeared on Origin of Symmetry, and indeed was recorded for intended release on that album, and is therefore not of Hullabaloo. I think a song should be listed when it first appeared on a recorded media in any form. Otherwise Muscle Museum will not count as a Showbiz era song but instead an EP song, so for any kind of consistency songs must be included multiple times in some instances. Sober was played up to five years before Showbiz was released, and first appeared on a demo in 1996 - clearly a pre-Showbiz song. It was also on a pre-Shobiz EP. Should this mean it should be removed from the Showbiz era o te EP era or the Demo era just to avoid repetition? No. It should be included in all as a sign the song has a significant presence in the recording sessions of each and to document the evolution of the song.

Riffs/intros should also be included in the era in which they were first played in they were never recorded. Close Encounters, for example, is strictly BHaR, What's He Building is strictly Hullabaloo. Removing these from these categories would be another loss of otherwise useful information.۞ 22:36, 4 January 2008 (GMT)


You're right, my bad on Futurism, forgot about that, but that's what I mean about listing the first appearance on a recorded media. As you mention on Sober, this should be listed under the EP AND under Showbiz, since it belongs to both, same as Unintended, Uno, etc, to reflect a chronological appearance of songs, evolution as you say and the proper definition of our eras. I agree with you on this one. Should this apply also to Futurism? (to appear on both OOS and Hullabaloo eras)

I don't really like the idea of the riffs since they aren't really muse songs and (to me) are just random bits played but if it's popular demand i'll abide by it. IF they are listed under eras, they should have the proper ID of RIFF or INTRO. --Domcrasher 03:22, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

I agree about the riffs, I think it's only worth mentioning them if they are listed on a setlist - they are probably worth mentioning as the riffs played are obviously influential on the band's own music - but they should be listed as riffs or intros rather than full songs if they are so. Futurism is probably best left as Origin only, as it was only recorded once, even if it was released later on as well (for example, an older song on a more modern release, eg. Muscle Museum on Australian Absolution bonus disc, doesn't really need to be repeated) but other songs like Uno were recorded twice so that's worth mentioning. ۞ 16:25, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

perhaps rather than separate pages for the different important riffs there should just be one page entitled 'riffs' and then it goes on to list all of the different riffs and their significance. Maggies farm et al. should be definitely be mentioned though, influences are written by muse is what makes it interesting--Wilfio 19:38, 5 January 2008 (GMT)
Yeah that's why I suggest a Riff/Intro/everything else section. anyone else agree?

--Domcrasher 18:33, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

I think listing songs twice doesn't make sense. I think songs should only be listed under the era they originated from. Any objections? 7 20:22, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

Just if they are re-recorded/re-released in some way: Most EP version of the songs were rerecorded for the record i think. The example of the Muscle Museum on AU Absolution is perfect for this.

--Domcrasher 18:33, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Classifying

I think songs should be classified, in the third column, under the following: "Song" "Instrumental" "Intro" "B side" "Bonus track" "Live riff" "Cover" "Non-album" "Demo"
For example (the interesting cases):
Blackout: Song
Feeling Good: Song; cover
Can't Take My Eyes Off You: B side; cover
Fury: B side; Bonus track
House Of The Rising Sun: Cover; non-album
Balloonatic: Non-album
Man Of Mystery: Cover; non-album
Maggie's Farm: Live riff
Interlude: Song; instrumental
What's He Building: Cover; intro
Boredom: Demo

Does this make sense? It seem to encompass the essential information about each song unambiguously. ۞ 20:05, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

Sure, just be consistent with the formatting. Sorry I haven't done much work lately, I've been really busy. 7 20:10, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

is What's He Building a cover? i thought it was just intro music? --Wilfio 00:41, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

It's just an intro, but the article is about the actual song by Waits. Considering this, I think only songs actually recorded by Muse should be listed. What does everyone else think? 7 01:04, 6 January 2008 (GMT)
like what i suggested with a riffs page, perhaps there should be an Intro Music page that would list all of the different intro musics used (Dance of the knights, Whats he building, JFK Speech etc). Wikipedia seems to do this quite a lot. this is a bad example but you get the idea [1] --Wilfio 16:49, 6 January 2008 (GMT)
Agree on Wilfio's suggestion. --Domcrasher 18:33, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Song/Album Names

Shouldn't the official names of songs be listed? (Such as: Yes Please instead of Crazy Days and Pink Ego Box instead of Instant Messenger) or are we going by the name the song had during that era? 7 22:50, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

Also what EP is referred to under the EP era? Is that the Muse EP or Muscle Museum EP or what? 7 22:53, 5 January 2008 (GMT)

Best to go by what song name was officially used at the time in my opinion - i.e. Instant Messenger being distinct from Pink Ego Box. Yes Please existed as Crazy Days for around 3 years and the article directs to the Yes Please article anyway. Whatever a song is called on the release it's on if from two different eras. ۞ 00:08, 6 January 2008 (GMT)
Agree on the original names, which must redirect to the song article page. When I suggested EP era, I meant both EPs, what does everyone else think? --Domcrasher 18:33, 6 January 2008 (GMT)
The EPs are very closely linked, same label, same producer, analogous promos, probably the same recording sessions, so should be kept in the same era ۞ 20:41, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Conclusion of project

There's a lot of talk going on, which is great, but I believe we should start agreeing on some rules for this section. For what I can see in Recent Changes, only 7, Wilfio, Star-shaped thingy and me have contributed. Maybe we could write rule suggestions under a new section here on the talk page and start voting, what do you think? --Domcrasher 18:33, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Is there really that much left to do? The riffs and intro and other live things need to be sorted but that's about it - then the page can be set up somewhere (probably repalacing the direct link to the category page). ۞ 20:41, 6 January 2008 (GMT)
Soooooo... we're done? Wow. The only thing that sorta bothers me is the layout. Having a massive list isn't exactly what I had in mind, but if everyone's OK with it, it's fine. I'll still try to see if I can find a better layout with the same info. 7 21:22, 6 January 2008 (GMT)
And by the way, just want to thank everyone who helped, especially ۞ (aka Funny Star Guy) and Domcrasher. Thanks guys for being so devoted and diligent in your work!!! Cheers! 7 02:35, 7 January 2008 (GMT)

Are we ever gonna do this? I believe it's ready for public view, what do you think? --Domcrasher 02:08, 14 January 2008 (GMT)

Uhhh... sure! Let's tell Tene or someone to see if he can help us put it somewhere where everyone can see it! 7 02:43, 14 January 2008 (GMT)
Check the main page! ۞ 00:09, 22 January 2008 (GMT)

New songs

We might need a convention for new songs over next few months, so shall we go with "New Song I" "New Song II" etc. unless the songs are named on a set list or are otherwise named by the band? And for the header "New Songs" should do. ۞ 18:35, 8 March 2008 (GMT)

Might be an idea to identify them by key assuming they're in different ones, as the band did with "New D" or whatever it was, so 'New $key song". That'll make them easier to distinguish from one another. --Tene 18:42, 8 March 2008 (GMT)
Well Muse let us down there. But I've added in the formally new songs when they were first demoed live. ۞ 00:04, 18 April 2009 (BST)